October 13, 2005

Fun with Numbers

Now we've all seen Bush's bad poll numbers as of late. The latest from WSJ/NBC is no different. Only 39% of Americans approve of the job Bush is doing. But the really fun number is in the breakdowns. Only 2% of blacks approve of Bush. Now this poll has a 3% margin of error. Which means that mathematically speaking there could be not a single black person left in the entire nation that approves of Bush.


Tyler said...

Sure. I mean Kanye West pretty much took care of that right? "George Bush doesn't care about black people." Thats what he said.

And we all know if an influential black person plays the race card the black "community" runs with it every time. After all society since the mid 60s has encouraged the whole black victimization thing. So is this really surprise in the wake of the whole Katrina thing?

By the way, who's responsible for all the deaths in the earthquake in Kashmir part of Pakistan? The country's president? Engineers? Architects? Building Contractors? Geography? Plate Tectonics?

I'm getting vaklempt...discuss amongst yourselves...

Laura said...

You never cease to amaze me, Tyler. I'm sure this isn't what you meant, but it sounds an awful lot like you don't believe that black people can make decisions for themselves. In fact, you make it sound like all black people think Kanye West is what, Jesus? That his word is law?

Here's the thing, Tyler. Most blacks have not supported this president (a sign of extreme intelligence, if you ask me) and those that did lost faith in the administrations abilities to respond to the needs of the American people after a disaster.

No one, not even Kanye West, is saying that Bush caused the damn hurricane. However, his policies are policies that encourage poverty and it was his actions that made FEMA an ineffective branch of Homeland Security.

And in response to the idea of "black victimization," Tyler, look at the numbers. Something like 25% of blacks live in poverty, versus 9% of non-hispanic whites. Now, I don't know exactly what caused this, a variety of factors in all likelihood. However, most blacks live in black communities, which are more likely to be poor communities than white communities. They have less access to decent education and healthcare than do their white suburban counterparts, and if you think that poor healthcare and crappy education doesn't contribute to poverty, you are dead wrong.

I don't know what it feels like to be black, and be discriminated against. However, I do know what it feels like to be gay and discriminated against. I know how you feel when people around you say that the discrimination and hatred don't exist anymore, but they do. A white man isn't going to see it, in part because you don't want to see it. It's easier to say these blacks need to work harder and be better and that will make them more succesful. It's easier to blame the poor for being poor than to see where our society goes so wrong in making people poor. It's all just another way to get out of fixing things. And until we fix things, we are going to have a higher percentage of blacks in poverty. And poor blacks are never going to support a president that only wants to cut services for the poor in order to give his rich buddies a tax cut.

Tyler said...


I just stated the Katrina thing did almost surely affect the polls. Yes I was a bit tongue but is that not more less a fact? You don’t think George Bush’s perceived incompetence had an affect? Of course Kanye West didn’t influence every single black person’s opinion. Don’t you see though? The race card was played indirectly because most of the people affected by Katrina were black, the government was slow to respond, therefore, W. is on the outs with the black voter. But you under estimate the power of words. What if Katrina hadn’t happened and they did a poll about whether or not W cares or doesn’t care about black people? Do you think it would be identical? Here is a poll that came out after Katrina. It clearly shows the black-white divide on the issue. Now you can’t really prove causation between West’s statement and the poll results but it doesn’t really matter. The point is that blacks perceive that W. doesn’t care about them, Kanye undoubtedly incited a lot of people on that issue.

The point is: Wow, big surprise! A poll taken in the aftermath of the Katrina disaster where the media showed countless images of blacks in distress—and now blacks hate W? Shocking! What I’m saying is I believe the poll. Those number are absolutely plausible.

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? Who said I don’t think black people can make decisions for themselves? Why are you talking about the poor? Why are you bringing up poverty? Who said that blacks have to work “harder”. Who’s blaming the “poor for being poor?” What does being a lesbian have to do with black people’s approval of W? You keep using the Chant to advance your agenda on unrelated issues? Your making a profession out of being a victim You’re just like those actors who state their political beliefs on stage after they win an award even though it has nothing to do with an acceptance speech or the honor of winning that said award.

And hasn’t society encoraged the black vitimization? Doesn’t the media jump on race issues when it’s a black victim and white perpetrator? They saturate the news and the papers, interview black leaders, cover black activism rallies, etc. Yet when the race of the victim and perpetrator are reversed, where’s the coverage? Example: Rodney King beating, and countless videos showing white cops beating black suspects. The media shows this and encourages the black victimization myth: That many more whites are evil racist people who commit interracial crime far more than blacks do. And because blacks were indeed victimized in the past (slavery, Jim Crow, etc.) that the are disproportionately disadvantaged in all ways now and forever.

Take the case of James Byrd Jr. He was a black man dragged to death in Texas by a white supremacist. Now this was an awful crime. I remember reading about it and seeing on TV. How could you not? It was everywhere. I mean, when you think “Hate Crime” what comes to mind? You probably think: Racist white Nazi/skin head beating up/killing a black man. And this was in fact what happened. A racist white guy killed an innocent black man. But the media runs with stories it and others like and promotes them to the hilt to the point where the average person thinks that only white people commit hate crimes; that blacks are more often the victims. It’s a legacy of the 60's and the Civil Rights movement. It may not be politically correct, but it doesn’t mean it’s necessarily Incorrect: The media essentially encourages and promotes black victimization.

Read this brief analysis of hate crimes
Read this . Blacks commit more violence against whites but the media doesn’t promote such stories:

“...a black was 64 times more likely to attack a white than vice versa. This is the real story of hate in America. It is the media's well-kept secret.
--- Excerpt from the above “analysis of hate crime” article

A more thorough account on this topic can be
found here

Spare the poverty excuse because rape and assault have little to do with annual income. You assault someone because you’re pissed off, you rape someone because you really want sex despite resistance of your victim.

The same mentality for victimization process goes on in sports as well. Does anyone remember the whole Rush Limbaugh debacle on ESPN? Well, I’ll refresh your memory. Early in the 2003 Season Rush stated the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb was not really that great of a QB and that it was all media hype:

"I don't think he's been that good from the get-go. I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he really didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

Rush was taken to the chopping block for that one. He was fired from ESPN, the talk shows, NFL players all denounced him. Once again the media portrayed McNabb as a victim of racism and the players, the sports journalists all agreed with little decent. But did anyone ever care to look at reality? Some did.

Contrast McNabb’s statistics up to 2002 (because Rush made the comment at the beginning of the 03 season) with Brad Johnson’s (a quarterback for Tampa Bay in 2002 and now with the Vikings).

Check out this Slate article on the topic:

Let's look at a quarterback with similar numbers who also plays for a team with a great defense. I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson one of the best quarterbacks in pro football—which is how McNabb is often referred to. In fact, I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson, on the evidence of his 10-year NFL career, much more than mediocre. Yet, Johnson's NFL career passer rating, as of last Sunday, is 7.3 points higher than McNabb's(84.8 to 77.5), he has completed his passes at a higher rate (61.8 percent to 56.4 percent), and has averaged significantly more yards per pass (6.84 to 5.91). McNabb excels in just one area, running, where he has gained 2,040 yards and scored 14 touchdowns to Johnson's 467 and seven. But McNabb has also been sacked more frequently than Johnson—more than once, on average, per game, which negates much of the rushing advantage.

In other words, in just about every way, Brad Johnson has been a more effective quarterback than McNabb and over a longer period.

And even if you say the stats don't matter and that a quarterback's job is to win games, Johnson comes out ahead. Johnson has something McNabb doesn't, a Super Bowl ring, which he went on to win after his Bucs trounced McNabb's Eagles in last year's NFC championship game by a score of 27-10.

Now, DON’T tell me that because Rush’s comments interjected the race issue, that he should be vilified. Race is a huge issue with NFL players union and (black) director Gene Pshaw. They make race an issue in their hiring practices. And the media continues with the victimization cycle. The NFL makes race an issue but Rush was crucified for it?

The fact is that almost every black quarterback is overrated (except Dante Culpepper) because they’re flashy runners who often don’t contribute much with their arms relative to traditional quarterbacks.

So stop making excuses. “Poor health care?”, “crappy education?” black poverty, discrimination? Yeah, those are facts. But why are you making excuses? I merely stated a fact. Black victimization is promoted, even encouraged. So what if its PC or not? Its true. Telling me about the plight of black people doesn’t change the white media’s reporting habits and tendencies. The media likes to show black victimization even though in some circumstances it may not necessarily reflect reality.

By the way, the comment I made in an earlier post: “that’s the way the government works” which you subsequently took to interpret as me, once again, hating black people was also mis-interpreted. I didn’t say that to mean:...tough shit, fuck the poor blacks, they just have to wait for help. I mean that I work for the government. I know how it operates. Even if the Katrina relief had gone well, people would have still had to wait. Even if Bill Clinton or John Kerry was President people still would have been hurt, killed, pissed off because it takes time to get help to where its needed. It’s a huge logistics problem where its impossible to get aid to people immediately.

You like to put words in my mouth so in return I’ll interpret what I think you are. I think you’re someone who like to make themselves feel superior to other white people who don’t share your liberal left wing politics/social beliefs. So you like to condescend to those who you disagree with you. You’re more interested in an agenda and a faux morality than you are in reality.

Have you ever thought about becoming a cellar master? That attitude seems to go with the profession.

Laura said...

I don't think that you can talk about "black victimization" without talking about poverty. I think it's absurd to say that. And I didn't put any words in your mouth you said "Kanye West took care of that..." that being Bush's bad poll numbers. Please tell me how to interperet this statement in another context. And furthermore, you go onto beat the tired dead horse of "black victimization." Which, in my opinion is nothing more than blaming black people for the way they have been treated in this country.

And how do you know that Kanye West incited people's opinions? Do you really think alot of people saw what was going on in Louisiana and said, hmmm....I think I'll wait until Kanye West tells me what he thinks before I make up my mind. No one needed Kanye West to say what he said to see that the response to the hurricane was slow and disorganized and that Bush and Co. were not all that concerned about that. Does "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job..." ring any bells for you?

And I brought up poverty because it's all intertwined. I don't personally know if Bush doesn't like black people, I personally believe Bush doesn't like poor people. But in Louisiana, most of the poor are black, so it becomes harder to say whether it's race motivated or motivated on a socio-economic level. And since race and poverty are so closely intertwined in this country it's a bit hard to separate them. After all, less than 1 in 10 whites are poor, but 1 in 4 blacks are. What this means, as far as I'm concerned, is that whites are less personally affected by poverty, which makes it easier to ignore and not understand, but 1 in 4 blacks? Most black people, if not directly affected themselves, know someone or are related to someone who's poor and they know that poverty isn't necessarily the end result of not working hard enough, that a lot of the time poverty is something that is done to a person, through bad social programs, poor education and sometimes just plain bad luck.

And I don't really know why you feel like attacking me personally is the best way to prove that I am wrong and you are right. Although, it does seem to be a pretty standard tactic for conservatives, doesn't it? I brought up being a lesbian because I was talking about discrimination that other people like to pretend doesn't exist. I spoke about poverty because poverty and race are interconnected in America. And if you think I put words in your mouth, I'm sorry, because that was not my intent.

And to address another point: how can you say that crime and poverty aren't related? You said it yourself, you assault someone because you are pissed off. And if you lived in poverty and and saw racism every day that you perceived as being aimed at keeping you down, I think you'd be angry too. And no, I don't think you'd start assaulting people, but you were raised by decent human beings, you grew up in a community where people, for the most part, were caring and responsible individuals. People who grow up in poverty and in poverty-stricken environments don't have that same background. They haven't been given a moral and thougtful upbringing, most of them are doing what they can to survive.

Does that make it okay to engage in criminal or violent behavior? No, of course not. But shouldn't we be about giving people in poverty a chance to be more than a criminal, to be successful and be proud of who they are? That's the way to fight violence.

Oh, and by they way, Tyler, rape isn't about sex, it's about power and violence.

I am not going to not respond to what you say here, on Craigorian Chant, unless Craig tells me he'd rather I didn't. Because here's the thing, Tyler, isn't that the whole point of blogs and political commentary? Isn't it to get different view points and have people say....hmmm I guess not everyone sees things the way I do.

Why does it bother you so much that I disagree with you? Yes, I am a liberal. Do I think I'm better or more intelligent than you? No. But I do think I'm at the very least entitled to my opinion and to the right to state my opinion. If you state your opinion and it goes against my opinions, I'm going to say something. I don't mind if you tell me when you oppose my opinions, in fact I prefer it. I think that unless you can successfully defend your opinions, you don't have any right to them. For instance if I couldn't tell you why I believed something, then that would be a wrong opinion to have. Otherwise, it's all fair game isn't it? Any interaction that causes people to really think and make decisions about their idealogies is good conversation. I'm sorry that it sounded like a personal attack on you. Because it wasn't. I don't dislike you, personally. However, I don't like some of the things you say. I don't have to. That's the beauty of being an American. I don't have to agree with you or anyone else.

And I think that you should understand that I respect your opinions all the more because you don't cave in when someone tells you they think you're wrong. I won't do that for anyone, so why would I expect you to?

Finally, I don't think that racism is perpetrated only by whites and affects only blacks. I don't think race and poverty are an excuse for criminal behavior. It's not about making excuses, Tyler. It's about finding the root cause and working from there to fix the problem.